The Handshakr Huddle - Season 3: Episode 3 with Aimee Bateman Exited Founder & TEDx speaker

Aimee Bateman is one of the most inspiring startup founders I've met. Aimee has an amazing story that shows true grit, tenacity and self-awareness. I am a huge fan and can't wait for folks to hear this episode.

Some context: In 2015, Aimee raised funding and began scaling a YouTube channel into an award-winning e-learning company, Careercake. Aimee has since exited the business and now advises startup founders on their journeys towards their goals.

Aimee is a TEDx speaker and has delivered incredibly impactful talks on judgement, imposter syndrome and how to choose/ignore business advice. These are all well worth a watch, folks.

You can find Aimee on her website, LinkedIn, Youtube and Instagram.

Transcript

[00:00:00] Leon Hardwick: Hey everybody. Welcome back to the Handshaker huddle. We, um, are joined this week by somebody I wanted to get on for ages. Um, and she's been so busy with all sorts of stuff going on. We'll hear a bit more about that in a second. Um, I'm really pleased to, um, to talk to you today. Amy Bateman. Hello. Hello.

[00:00:35] Aimee Bateman: Thank you for having me. And I'm, yeah, I'm delighted that we finally got swimming in the diary, right. So we can, we can have a Good, have a good chat. Yeah. It's been, it's been, um, I guess really busy for you, and we'll get to that in a minute, but it's also been. A bit crazy, um, just with everything going on on in the world and, and, um, on handshake side, it's just been nuts, I suppose.

[00:00:59] Leon Hardwick: Mm-hmm. . So, [00:01:00] um, we've just sort of kicked off the new series and um, like I said, I've wanted to get you on this for ages, not for a whole host of reason. I re admire your. Journey and, um, you know, what you've been through. But also, um, philosophically some of the things you talk about publicly, we'll get into in a second.

[00:01:17] Leon Hardwick: But we tend to start, um, these discussions with kind of. people's careers and like how they started from, you know, whether it was sort of straight outta school or university or whatever. Um, so I dunno if you, could you tell us a little bit about how you got into, um, the world of, of business and entrepreneurship and then we'll talk a bit about career cake in a, in a bit as well.

[00:01:37] Leon Hardwick: Yeah. Okay. Sure. Um, so I, I suppose I need to go back sort of the teenage years really. Cause I think anybody that's an entrepreneur founder, there's usually some kind of reason why.

[00:01:49] Aimee Bateman: Why we do this ridiculous thing with without . Like, why we can't just go and get a job and sleep well at night, why do we do it to ourselves?

[00:01:56] Aimee Bateman: Um, but I spent the majority of my teenage years in foster care, so I moved, I [00:02:00] had quite a number of foster homes, didn't have a huge amount of self-esteem growing up. No real role models. Um, very Lynn, very, very early on that you, uh, knew nobody's coming to save you. You are in charge of the life you wanna live, not the life you're given, all that kind of stuff.

[00:02:13] Aimee Bateman: And, and, um, and grew very, very independent, very, very early on. and also when you are molded in. A bit of a shit storm. Really. Let's be real. When you're molded in, in a bit of a shit storm, you, you, you kind of grow up with a bit of a resilience, a bit of a bulletproof attitude to the wheel because you're like, yeah, what, what are you gonna throw at me?

[00:02:33] Aimee Bateman: There's nothing I can't cope with, kind of thing. And that's a really lovely attitude to have and a really helpful attitude to have if you are founder or entrepreneur, because life's gonna show. Throw, uh, a multiple of more shit storms at you as you go through, through the journey. Um, as you know, and how your listeners will also know, cuz they're probably on their own, uh, entrepreneurial founder journey.

[00:02:54] Aimee Bateman: What I did do though, is come out of it with, um, A [00:03:00] huge amount of gratitudes because you also, when you are in environments like that, you see other people that are going through a lot worse than you. Mm-hmm. and, um, certainly some of the homes I lived in, the respite cases that came to stay with us for weekends or weeks, you know, you'd go to bed at night as a 15 year old girl thinking, thank God I'm me, thank you know.

[00:03:18] Aimee Bateman: Yeah. Because, and, and when you, when you are exposed to that amount of, that level of gratitude at a really early age, again, That's a blessing too. So I also came out of it thinking I'm resilient as hell and I'm also really grateful for being me. So what, what am I gonna do with the next 60, 70, 80 years that I've got?

[00:03:39] Aimee Bateman: And that attitude really set me off, um, on a path, but it was also married with having quite low self-esteem because I also had a a lot of noise saying, you know, you're never gonna achieve anything. You're not good enough. You know, there was just a lot, a lot of moments where I felt seen, heard and valued until I got my first job and it was in recruitment and, um, I was judged [00:04:00] quite a lot growing up.

[00:04:00] Aimee Bateman: There was, I was always like the care kids. People weren't allowed to like be friends with me cause I must be trouble, or I remember getting banned from our local Landes in Pembrokeshire. I've never stolen anything in my life, but I must be, you know, back in 1996 in a little fishing village in Pembrokeshire where people are like, well, They're not really aware of things that, and if people so don't understand something, they alienate it, right?

[00:04:21] Aimee Bateman: So I was banned from, from going in our local, our local shop, um, because obviously I must be troubled. So there was a lot of judgment growing up and all of a sudden I was in this career and I was in this job. And I started off in Haze, which is a recruitment company. And I was judged from a completely different perspective.

[00:04:37] Aimee Bateman: I was good at making money, I was good at getting people jobs, hence why I was good at making the company money. So they liked me. More than that. I, I, I saw the impact that putting somebody in a job for eight hours a day had on their self-esteem and also how it had on my self-esteem. Um, you know, I, I always said to 'em, I was in an environment where when I was good, because I wasn't [00:05:00] particularly academic at school, um, and I was never really praised, all of a sudden I'm being praised.

[00:05:05] Aimee Bateman: I'm also in an environment where, I'm helping other people and the best way for you to feel valued is to give value. If you are ever in a position where you're feeling rubbish about something, go out there and help somebody. And it's the best way for you to feel good about yourself. So, yeah, and it, and I was like, this is what I wanna do for the rest of my life.

[00:05:25] Aimee Bateman: I wanna make sure for eight hours a day people go somewhere where they feel seen, heard and valued. Because when you do that, you go home. You're a better mum, dad, brother, sister, next door neighbor. And that's what I decided to do. And I was a recruiter for 10 years and then, um, 2010 kicked in the recession and I just started making YouTube videos.

[00:05:42] Aimee Bateman: Um, helping people. Cause we had loads of people coming into our offices crying like, I lost my job. It was horrific. I don't if you remember it, but it was horrific. There were people turning up at to companies and there were notes on the door saying, sorry, somebody will be in touch. But the company went into administration at midnight, like all [00:06:00] that stuff was happening.

[00:06:00] Aimee Bateman: Yeah. And we were having loads of people coming in and we just didn't have any jobs for them and they were leaving. Felt awful, so I decided to just buy this 9 99 camera on Eve bearing mind. This is 2010, so nobody's doing anything on YouTube. Nobody's doing it. Yeah. Yeah, no, really clearly in that hallway, Gary Vaynerchuck had just started doing his like wine library stuff and.

[00:06:19] Aimee Bateman: And he was like my first inspiration. So I launched, he had wine library tv, and I was like, oh, maybe I could do something like that. Nobody in my space was doing anything. So I launched Korea cake TV because I didn't have the balls to call it Amy Bateman by my name because I didn't have the confidence to do that.

[00:06:36] Aimee Bateman: And I liked cake, and that was literally the only thought that went into it. And I just started making these videos with this cheaper camera i'd. The production was awful. There was like a microwave lasagna in one. There was a bottle of vodka on the back of my foot. I remember my first ever comment on YouTube, I think it was how to Write a Cover Letter.

[00:06:52] Aimee Bateman: And I was like, I got a comment. Somebody watched my video and they'd said, well, I hadn't, I done my dishes . I was like, oh, no. Means I need [00:07:00] to, uh, my production. But, but it grew and grew and grew and I think that that's, that I knew I was on my path. And then we got to about five, 10 million hits, I think within the first year.

[00:07:09] Aimee Bateman: And I ran that as a consultancy for about six years. Just me, and then got really bored. Um, I just felt like I, it was, things got easy. Mm-hmm. and, um, I decided, I look back and used to think why, why I changed things from easy. I don't know. But anyway, I decided I was gonna scale this thing and turn it into like a Netflix for Korea.

[00:07:30] Aimee Bateman: For Korea. Like I, why? Yeah. I'm gonna take on LinkedIn Learning. I'm gonna, I'm gonna build, I'm gonna build an e-learning platform off the back of my YouTube channel. So, raise. Amazing. Right. So I just, I, you know, you, it's so commendable that you just went, okay, I'm gonna try this, I'm gonna turn the camera on myself and, and give it a go.

[00:07:51] Aimee Bateman: Um, winding back a little bit, right? Yeah. So you talk about your upbringing and you talk about that sort of drive and things. Um, [00:08:00] it seems very self-aware now, and, and I'm, I'm curious. , you know, were you that self-aware at the time or was that something that you've kind of figured out as you've got a bit older?

[00:08:08] Aimee Bateman: Um, you, you, you mentioned, um, Wanting to help people, you know, feeling like, um, you're being judged and stuff, but you kind of got through all of that stuff. Got a really good job. Um, a job that you really enjoyed and it kind of started to bring you out to yourself, but like, were you that self-aware at the time or have you just figured the stuff out as you got away?

[00:08:27] Aimee Bateman: No, I think that feeling, definitely that feeling of all of a sudden going to bed at night. Liking yourself, or I remember very clearly driving my car back from Newport in South Wales, from our offices 50 pound Nissan mic that was older than me. I'd bought it off, one of my mate's mum's it. It didn't do more than 50 miles an hour, but I remember driving back in it.

[00:08:49] Aimee Bateman: and feeling the self-esteem, almost like running through gripping the steering wheel and feeling the self-esteem running through my veins, like as if I as if somebody was injecting me. Like it was, it was in, I [00:09:00] remember the feeling and it, that was my first week and I was like, I wanna, I wanna feel this forever.

[00:09:04] Aimee Bateman: And not only that, I want other people to feel that. And I, I d I didn't, don't think I put the two and two together as Oh, grew up, you were getting really judged. Maybe, you know, I, I didn't, I didn't connect the dots. I've done a huge amount of work and I'm an award-winning development coach. Like I know all that stuff now, but at the time, it was a feeling and it was surely the biggest, most profound feeling and that, that I was very aware of that.

[00:09:31] Aimee Bateman: Okay. And it's, it, there's a lot of parallels to my sort of journey. I mean, obviously you, you, you also mentioned entrepreneurs tend to have, um, I guess not so much a chip on the shoulder, but they've had a either a really challenging sort of upbringing or whatever, and, and that's sort of driven them, or, you know, something's happened, you know, um, as they've grown up.

[00:09:53] Aimee Bateman: I, I, I do. I certainly have a similar story, um, but I was never particularly [00:10:00] self-aware, so it took me a long time to figure out where I was going and what I was kind of good at. I mean, from the, from the age of 16, it was like I was in sales as such, but I didn't really think I was that good at it. And, and, and I didn't have that sort of natural confidence, I don't think.

[00:10:17] Aimee Bateman: Mm-hmm. , um, in that sort of role. Um, I, I, and I just, It fascinates me that you had that sort of course into your veins . Um, I feel like the self-doubt came after. It was almost like I was injected into the world Yeah. As this fearless, fearless little thing. Right. And then it was actually as ti as a 42 year old woman sat in front of 41, and I'm not 42 yet 41.

[00:10:45] Aimee Bateman: I'm probably riddled more with self-doubt and imposter syndrome now than I was then. But the difference is, is that I know how to handle it now. I know what to do about it. Now I've learned the strategies and stuff. Um, it's almost like before life gets to you, right? ? Yeah. Tell me [00:11:00] about it. And that's the thing, like I, I think.

[00:11:02] Aimee Bateman: I think I probably have more self-doubt than I did when I was younger, even though I wasn't sort of, um, uh, at the time you, you sort of, you were in two categories. Either you had the gift or the gab in the whole sales kind of, uh, world, or you had, um, I guess empathy for the, the job and the role and the problems you were trying to solve.

[00:11:21] Aimee Bateman: And I never really felt like I was in the other court. Um, but it's. I find it fascinating cuz I do feel like over time you get weathered a bit and you do learn how to deal with it a bit better. But, but I do feel like you do, you are impacted by that over time, aren't you? Um, hundred percent. I could not agree with you more.

[00:11:38] Aimee Bateman: So you, so you, you have this confidence, um, you, you. Recognizes as sort of an opportunity and you start filming yourself and things are probably changing from a technology perspective. Like you, you have the platform to do this. Um, what, what, how, how did you decide you were gonna focus on the subject matter that you were focused on?

[00:11:58] Aimee Bateman: Was it like, because of those [00:12:00] people coming into the office feeling so like, Let down because they hadn't had, you know, they, they'd lost their jobs or whatever. What, what was the thing that drove you to go that point? I think, I think it was because it was the thing that sh that shifted my me. So all of a sudden I was in a job where I was happy.

[00:12:14] Aimee Bateman: Yeah. And it had an impact on me. Um. So I knew that it was, if I'm not allow, I, you know, I certainly didn't have the skills to be a life coach, and I certainly wasn't a relationship coach, but I knew that if I got somebody in an environment for eight hours a day, because we all know what it's like to have a job where you feel like nobody sees you.

[00:12:31] Aimee Bateman: You go home, sit your phone on silent, you're not the best husband or wife to your partner. You're not the best version of yourself for your kids. Like I know all that. I've seen it happen. But, and I also know that if you go somewhere eight hours a day and, and you feel amazing, like you're on your pur you, you, you're living your purpose, you're feeling validated, then it will have an impact on your life.

[00:12:50] Aimee Bateman: And it certainly had that on me. So I knew that that's what, what I wanted to spend certainly a considerable amount of my, of my career. [00:13:00] So, um, and then the, the career, the career cake as a, as a startup came because I don't, I didn't know a lot about a lot. I knew a lot about, a little bit. I knew a lot about helping, um, people on certain things, but as my community grew, I think I've got to about, at one point I got to about, I think there's like 38 million hits on YouTube on my career advice videos across five channels.

[00:13:20] Aimee Bateman: Well, that's. and people were messaging me saying, I'm gay. How do I tell my colleagues or I'm being bullied? What do I do? And, and I, and I don't believe that I'm the best placed person to talk about these things. I'm very adamant. I'm like, it's one of the things I do. If you ask me a question and I don't think I'm the right person, I won't just find an answer.

[00:13:38] Aimee Bateman: I'll just say, I, I don't think I'm best qualified to answer that. And it really bothers me when people go for an answer, when they don't really, they're not the best placed person to do it. So I decided to raise funding, um, and build a platform where, uh, I could get other people that were smarter than me on certain topics into a [00:14:00] studio to create content.

[00:14:01] Aimee Bateman: And then that would be, that would still be me helping people. Um, but obviously if I was gonna do that, I needed to find a way to monetize it. Um, and, and, and career Cake, the e-learning, um, platform started to be born and that was, I. 20 20 16. 2016. Okay. Wow. So you, you, you get to this milestone, it's like a consultancy thing, and then you get to this milestone and you get all these hits and you're like, okay, I can make this happen.

[00:14:27] Aimee Bateman: I can, and, and it shows, I think it shows great self-awareness that you like, okay, I know I can help these people in an area that I think I, you know, have a bit of expertise, but I'm not gonna sort of try and bs my way through all of these other questions as bring people in. Absolutely. You don't. So, so you get to that point and you start to think, okay, this is an actual business.

[00:14:48] Aimee Bateman: Where did you go from there? Was it like, okay, I need to fund something, I need to find fundraising? Or was it like, I'm gonna try and get this going myself for a little while before I start looking down that road? How did that first year or so go for you? Um, [00:15:00] well, I felt like I'd already started getting it together myself because I, I'd, by that point, I, I already had a, a community that were asking me for something that I wasn't best placed to, to, to, to, to offer.

[00:15:11] Aimee Bateman: Um, also just, just, you know, I don't come from many I, I. Some of my foster homes, they, they actually didn't, some of my parents weren't, didn't even have jobs. Um, you know, their job was that they were a foster parent. So they, they, you know, it wasn't like that. They were like, there was all of these career people around me, these wealthy entrepreneur business people.

[00:15:32] Aimee Bateman: So I didn't really know where to start. All I knew is, is that, I would just find out. You'd figure it out? Yeah. Like I would just figure it out. So, um, that's a skill in itself, right? It's like going, okay, I don't know. Yeah, let's just give it a go. Right? 

See, 

[00:15:48] Leon Hardwick: this, this, this goes back to why a lot of people say to me, you know, oh, it's really sad what happened to you.

[00:15:52] Leon Hardwick: And I'm like, you haven't got a clue how grateful I am. Like it's my superpower. Because when you go through life with no ex, nobody expects anything of you. You've got nothing to lose. You just [00:16:00] go for it. Um, plus I was a 35 single a workaholic. No kids. It, you know, I, I, if now was the time to do it, now was the time to take the risk.

[00:16:10] Leon Hardwick: Um, so I just decided to go for it. And it started off just by visualizing what I wanted. I just wanted to create a place. And LinkedIn learning didn't exist then. Yeah, yeah. It was still.com and I hadn't, so it was a real early days for e-learning, but I just knew that I was good at making videos. I, I gave, I really, I gave a genuine shit about people and I knew that I was able, what I was able.

[00:16:34] Leon Hardwick: Create could add value. So I just started going to like events and stuff and, and building relationships with people that I wanted to learn from. And I didn't think I was gonna take investment. I thought I would just build it myself initially. Um, but just by being in the room with the right people talking about my vision, eventually people took notice and I was offered seed investment in a, in a, in a meeting, which I wasn't actually expecting to offer.

[00:16:58] Leon Hardwick: I was sat with a baseball cap [00:17:00] on and a pair of ris and a coffee shop in Cow Bridge, um, talking about what I wanted to do, and he just turned around and went, do you want some money? And I was like, okay, do you want me to back you? Yeah. And it kind of went from there, really. But I mean, as lovely as that was, I was in that coffee shop with that person because I'd made myself heard.

[00:17:19] Leon Hardwick: Yeah, yeah, exactly. And so you bring an investor on, um, what happens next? Well, I actually decided that, uh, I was sitting on the board of another company. I won't go into too much detail, but it, it almost sort of ended before it even started really. I was sitting on the board of another company and that person was gonna build the thing and I was gonna give him a 50% of the company and we were gonna build it together.

[00:17:41] Leon Hardwick: And then I went to Australia, met another one of my investors who then became a vacillator on, had a bit of a, a whirlwind tour of meeting people that I'd worked with previously. Came back six weeks later and realized that he wasn't, The other person wasn't gonna deliver what? He was basically trying to take the piss

[00:17:59] Leon Hardwick: Yeah. Okay. [00:18:00] And, um, and I very quickly decided that I wasn't gonna let that happen. So I called a meeting with my investor and had this other person very early on. I think it was like, The day I got back from Australia and I said, no, this isn't, this is absolutely not gonna happen. And um, we closed, I think we might even have, did we close the company or do No, we bought him out.

[00:18:22] Leon Hardwick: Yeah. And it, which blew my mind because we hadn't actually started yet, so I had to buy somebody out of something that he hadn't actually, we hadn't even started yet , but I did. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, um, we've been talk, yeah. Anyway, so that all was, that cost some money, but I needed to do it. And, um, And that, I suppose that was just a, a real, I wish I'd said fuck off a lot more during my founder journey.

[00:18:46] Leon Hardwick: I look back on the, like the last seven years and I think about some of the ways that I was treated by certain stakeholders. Um, and I think that comes down to confidence. But I think when, when, when it comes, and I think a [00:19:00] lot of your listeners will hear this, when it really comes down to survival mode, you find this gumption, you find, you find.

[00:19:08] Leon Hardwick: Fierce attitude, um, and you just to protect yourself and what it is that you want to build. Um, and I found it in that moment. Fantastic. And, and to be honest, it's something that I. I'm, I'm, I'm a big dude, and I tend not to be particularly like, um, uh, aggressive a in meetings and stuff. A lot of people say you're just a very nice guy.

[00:19:34] Leon Hardwick: Um, but there are occasions in the, in the, in the whole filing journey, you, you do need to be incredibly straight and direct and stick up for yourself. I think it. First time founder. This in particular, I find that very hard. Um mm-hmm. , it takes a while to get there. So you've watching, watching my chairman as well.

[00:19:51] Leon Hardwick: So watching my lead investor. So he's a chap called Ashley Cooper. Yeah. Um, who some people might know, he's quite prolific in the early stage startup scene as an [00:20:00] investor. Um, . And I remember watching him in that meeting and thinking, wow. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Like he's just, he's just incredible. Like the way that he handles conversations the way he doesn't, you know, he's just, he's taught me so much about, about business and how to handle yourself over the last seven years.

[00:20:18] Leon Hardwick: Um, and he really has been, um, probably he, I don't, I'm going for lunch with him at the end of the month. I'll probably tell him. But he really has been one of the best things professionally to happen to me, I think. It's, it's, it's that thing where you, you know, you cannot, you can't learn that from a, from a, a book or a, you know, textbook or whatever.

[00:20:37] Leon Hardwick: You have to be in it and experience it and go through it and watch what's going on around you. And it sometimes makes me think a little bit, and I love hybrid working, and I love the fact that we've got this flexibility now, but I, I sometimes wonder how ki like younger folks coming into the workplace are kind of really.

[00:20:51] Leon Hardwick: Learned that stuff from being, you know, behind a screen and, um, you know, not engaging in an office type. You are so Right. And that's exactly what we did [00:21:00] at Career Cake. That's why, you know, that was probably why we got an access, because the market needed what we were offering more than anything. You know, people were using our content to develop their teams that were working at home.

[00:21:09] Leon Hardwick: Yeah, yeah. Um, yeah, you couldn't be more right. And so, um, you, you build this company, you have investors. Um, what was your primary, primary sort of business model? Um, b2b, b2c. Like how did that Depends what, it depends what month you were talking to me. . So we started off b2c. Yeah, just because it lent itself really nicely from the YouTube channel.

[00:21:33] Leon Hardwick: Um, but we, we figured out pretty soon for, for various reasons, um, that are very industry specific. So I won't go into them cause they'll probably be really boring for your audience, but for various reasons. Um, we really couldn't find market fit there. Um, and we spent about 18 months trying and, um, and we couldn't get it, so we ended up going b2, b2c.

[00:21:52] Leon Hardwick: So we ended up, rather than going b2c, we still had our B2C community. And that was something that we never really made any money off. Um, We didn't [00:22:00] lose money, but we never made money of it and. We did it mostly just because it felt good. Yeah. Because we felt like we should, um, most of our B2C audience when you're out of work, don't really have that much money.

[00:22:11] Leon Hardwick: So they would cancel their free subscription, they'd rinse our content, cancel the subscriptions, and we'd be like, good, good for you. like, yeah. Cause we're we, yeah. We were like, don't worry, we'll make our income somewhere else. Like if that's what you need. Fine. So we never really changed that model. Um, it felt good.

[00:22:28] Leon Hardwick: And Lucy Heskins, who was my. Marketing director, my founding, uh, employees, we both talked about that a number of times, and it always came down to we don't care. We wanna help them. So we kept that, and then we just went down to b2c, b2, b2c. So we went through, um, avenues where we were employers were using our content to hire their, to help their teams.

[00:22:49] Leon Hardwick: But we also then went to aca. We went to. We went to memberships, which I thought was actually, I thought was like a really sexy business model and we were really pleased about this and it actually worked. So [00:23:00] if you were a member of an organization that was ultimately helping you with your career, you could get access to our content.

[00:23:07] Leon Hardwick: You know, like if you have a good bank account, you can get acc, you get like free dominoes or rail cards or whatever. Yeah, we did that. So we signed that off with Nation. So that was, we won a, a really big award for that actually. So if you had a mortgage with Nationwide who were the biggest mortgage lender in the UK and you lost your job, they would gift you access to career cake for 12 months until you were back in work.

[00:23:27] Leon Hardwick: That's fantastic. Yeah. That's a really, yeah. And we sat on the call center floors with the people in Nationwide, in the head office, like hearing the stories of people that, you know, had been made redundant. And it was, it was a really lovely, lovely, uh, piece. And we went with other professional bodies to do it like that.

[00:23:43] Leon Hardwick: And then, licensed our content. So we had a tech platform, which was obviously people could come on and watch our content and very modeled on Spotify. So you could create playlists, send them to your friends, your mates, your wife, started a new job, created a playlist and her like, [00:24:00] watch doing the first night days of your job, how to conduct a meeting, all this kind of stuff.

[00:24:03] Leon Hardwick: But we, I knew who I wanted to sell to, so I knew, I knew who I wanted to sell to by name before I'd even started the company. So we partnered with them. So one of the best pieces of advice I would say to any startup is don't get competitive. Like, don't like just do one thing that they're doing that they're not doing really well, cuz you can't compete with them.

[00:24:28] Leon Hardwick: I was never gonna compete on tech. I was never gonna, because if you can, if you try and compete on tech, then it's like an empty bucket, right? There's always gonna be other bigger companies with bigger budgets, more, more investment that can kick your ass if you're only USP is tech. So we, we decided to compete on content and ho harnessing on a niche, a specific niche that they weren't really serving the people that I wanted a passel to that weren't really serving and just go hard there, which is what we did.

[00:24:56] Leon Hardwick: And then I ended up. Our biggest [00:25:00] customer then became our biggest competitor was our, our biggest competitor. Sorry. The person obviously who wanted to sell to. Cause you always wanna like became our biggest customer and that was LinkedIn learning. Amazing. And how did you find the whole B2B sort of space?

[00:25:15] Leon Hardwick: Because, you know, you, you sell to consumers and it's very marketing led, product led. Um, you need lots of marketing dollars obviously to, to get in front of lots and lots of consumers. And then you've got like a, I guess you've got a membership or a subscription-based play. It's kind of s and b. Focus generally is like, um, product led sort of salesy type, but then you go to the bigger guys and it's like this very, um, sales led, you know, human relationship, long-winded cycles and stuff.

[00:25:44] Leon Hardwick: Was that kind of similar for you? In in, in, it was hard. It was so hard. It was probably the biggest challenge that we had after fundraising as a female founder. That was probably the, um, the biggest challenge that we had. Because I think getting market fit was quite easy. [00:26:00] That was quite quick. Yeah. So we knew very clearly what our market pop our offering was.

[00:26:04] Leon Hardwick: Yeah. Yeah. But the fact that we were coming at them with no testimonials, no previous experience. You know, we've got a YouTube channel all these hits. Yeah, that's great. But like, who else have you worked with? What are the L L L and D teams and HR teams can say that you've helped them retain 20% more staff because they watched your videos and we just didn't have that, that background.

[00:26:24] Leon Hardwick: Right. We didn't have those testimonials initially. We did in the end, but initially we didn't. So what we did was we just went straight to the, it's like early adopters. So we went to organizations that, and built relationships with them that were doing. So that had a lot of millennial staff, for example.

[00:26:44] Leon Hardwick: So our content was specifically for people in the first 15 years of their career. So we, we looked at those smaller companies that were competing to gain talent against the big people that might be able to afford bigger salaries and nicer offices. And we, we, we just, [00:27:00] we just gave them the prop, the platform at a reduced rate.

[00:27:03] Leon Hardwick: So, But on the basis that they would give us testimonials, we could do focus groups, they would do video testimonials as well. Um, and then we just did that for a year or two knowing that we were gonna have to pay the long game. And I think people, people forget to do that a lot in business. A lot of, and I get why?

[00:27:21] Leon Hardwick: Because those quick wins when. You're not getting many wins at all. Yes, is, is quite tempting, but the long game is really where it's at. So knowing that we probably won't make a profit B2B wise or, or really get what we deserve financially for a while, but once you get that, then eventually it's easier then to go out to to, to the bigger players.

[00:27:41] Leon Hardwick: I love that. I think that, that, that's a nugget in terms of, um, advice for folks, not just in start, in the starter world. It's having patience with. The deals you're working on. Um, if you've got enough runway and you've got folks around you that understand this world, they'll, they'll obviously let it play [00:28:00] out.

[00:28:00] Leon Hardwick: And, and you guys are super clever in terms of like, You know, you had an offering, you had some really great content and you were offering up to start off with so that people got bit sort of hooked on the drug. You know, you're, you're kind of almost sort of hoping that they'll, you know, take it like it's crack

[00:28:17] Leon Hardwick: Eventually they'll stick to it. Right. Um, but the one thing that presses me is kind of the laser focus you seem to be, and, and it came across in sort of the early years you mentioned, um, you. You're very self aware. Um, but actually that comes through in your career as well. Super laser focused, understood your customer, kind of, um, made it happen.

[00:28:37] Leon Hardwick: And, and you alluded to the exit as well, just a second ago. I didn't kind of touch upon that just cuz I wanted to get. Into the business side of it, but you guys drove the business, started getting those customers on board and, and eventually came to, to the exit point, driven by what was going on around us, I think, in terms of people working from, from home, I suppose.

[00:28:56] Leon Hardwick: Um, how did that come about? So I knew straight [00:29:00] away that, um, there's only, there were a few, I look, actually, I was sharing my old decks with a female founder that I'm helping at the moment who's raising investment. And I was going through my, my old investment decks and laughing about cringing and laughing my heads.

[00:29:11] Leon Hardwick: Yeah, we're gonna make 10 million in the next 12 months. It's like, yeah, whatever. Um, but, but there's a lot of good stuff in there as well. Um, and, um, oh, the first thing that we were really, really aware of was what, who, when the, what, who's doing what in the market and why are we different? Um, and the per, there were, there was, the one company that I really wanted to sell to was, was, was Linda, who then became LinkedIn.

[00:29:35] Leon Hardwick: Uh, the year that we founded LinkedIn, acquired Linda for some ridiculous amount of money. I believe it was the biggest ever. and then obviously Microsoft purchased LinkedIn and it just became, and I was like, oh gosh, okay, how are we gonna compete with them? Well, they're not really doing a huge amount in the UK at the moment and plus let's not compete with them.

[00:29:51] Leon Hardwick: Let's just, let's just collaborate with them. Um, and they didn't really have a really big focus on the UK millennial market. So [00:30:00] you know, they weren't making content on how to tell your colleagues you're gay or, you know, the real, or dealing with bullying. Like just, I dunno, there were just certain topics.

[00:30:11] Leon Hardwick: Are all like, how, what to do when you screw up at a Christmas party. Like they were just real life stuff that keeps you awake. I've been there, I should have watched that video. I should've watched. Yeah. Yeah. . . Yeah. Um, or like you press B uh, B cc on an email rather than bc you know, all this. Yeah. So our audience used to, we used to go out and say, what do you want help with?

[00:30:31] Leon Hardwick: What do you want content with? So our product was very much led by our customer, um, and, and nobody else was really making content on. , but it was the stuff that people really wanted. Yeah. So we started doing that and I suppose it's just pure faith really in that what you are doing is the right thing because obviously you're spending 60 grand in a studio for three months making content and then putting out there and thinking, okay, hope it works.

[00:30:52] Leon Hardwick: But, but, but we've done enough to know that this is what people want. And then we built it. And I remember bumping into one of my [00:31:00] bosses from, from one of the recruitment companies. She's like, oh, what you doing here? It's like, oh, I'm, I, I I, I own a business now. And this is a boss that told me when I was 22 that I should wear shorter skirts with more makeup, and then I might make more money.

[00:31:10] Leon Hardwick: Yeah. Absolute dick. Um, and, um, I was chatting to him. He'd was, he'd, he'd was also using the film studio for something. And, and I dunno why, cause I would never say this normally, but I think there's this moment of insecurity came out of me, but I went, yeah, I've got this startup and I'm gonna build it and sell it to LinkedIn.

[00:31:30] Leon Hardwick: And he laughed at me and I'm quite right, so I dunno. I looked back at it and said, why did you say that to him? But I think it was like that insecurity came out and I ended up, I think I just sounded it like an idiot. Um, but he laughed at me quite rightly so. But, but that's pretty much what I wanted to do.

[00:31:44] Leon Hardwick: I wanted to sell its LinkedIn. Mm-hmm. , um, and. Obviously, how are LinkedIn gonna know about her? So I found out that, um, all my Vesta pictures, by the way, when they asked me what were the outcome was, I said LinkedIn and I got laughed at a lot. Ashley never laughed at me though. Um, [00:32:00] Mordy Golding is an incredible chap and he is somebody that w worked with, um, linda.com and, and helped Linda and the team then when they were required by LinkedIn Learning and he was now head of contact LinkedIn Learning best based in New York American.

[00:32:15] Leon Hardwick: I'D followed him and his career and thought he was a bit of a legend really, but found out that he was speaking at a conference and it was two grand to to, to go to this conference in, it was a global Silicon Valley aired tech conference. Global Silicon Valley conference that was in Utah, which Salt Lake City, which was very strange place to have it.

[00:32:34] Leon Hardwick: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But, um, and we were just about to close, uh, a second investor round, like it was a pre-seed, and then we were going to seed and we didn't have, we had about five grand left in the bank. And I remember saying, but he's speaking at this conference. If I can get to this conference, then I can tell him about career cake and maybe, you know, we can collaborate with them or work with them.

[00:32:56] Leon Hardwick: This could be the way that, you know, they find out. [00:33:00] So I spent 2,200 pounds. I remember. To go to this conference. I had no money then to eat. So cuz we didn't, it was, I spoke to the team and I was like, we probably won't get paid this month, but is everybody okay for me to use what we've got in the bank for me to go to this conference?

[00:33:15] Leon Hardwick: And they were like, yeah, do it, do it, do it. I had one hot meal, I was there for four days. I had one hot meal in four days because I didn't have enough money. And I look back at it now and I feel a little bit emotional because it was, it is actually. It wa it was a really sad time, really, like I, I didn't eat for like two days.

[00:33:32] Leon Hardwick: I was stayed in this awful motel that had blood on the sheets. It was disgusting, but I couldn't afford anything else. And then I was rocking up at the, this massive hotel where everybody was, the conference was being held and everybody was there and staying. Pretending like I was staying there too, but I wasn't.

[00:33:49] Leon Hardwick: And um, and then he was speaking at this conference and I did loads of work to find out, you know, when someone's on a stage where their eyes go, it's to the [00:34:00] left of the audience. 30% backs. If there's a hundred seats, it's in the roof. So I worked at exactly what seat I should be in, and I got there really early and I sat in that seat.

[00:34:14] Leon Hardwick: So, because psych, psychologically I was, apparently that's where his eyes will fall, . And when it comes to a q and a and I put my hand up, he will be more likely to see my hand than anybody else in the room. And that's what I did. And I That's amazing. He said, what are your questions? And you've got any questions?

[00:34:31] Leon Hardwick: And my, it's still on YouTube actually, this video. Cause it's a, it was like a massive, massive event in our industry, like the event. Like Andrea Agassi did the talk. We had the, um, the founder of LinkedIn was doing the talk. It was huge. It was huge. And I was just there, and you just hear this little Welsh accent asking this question.

[00:34:49] Leon Hardwick: I can't remember what I asked now, but it, I didn't even, I don't, I didn't even care. I just wanted to just speak to him because I admired him so much. And then he, he, he answered my question. [00:35:00] He came straight to me and I was the first question he answered. So it worked. My strategy worked. Uh, and then at the end I just went up to him and I said, I've traveled from the UK just to be, to meet just for this.

[00:35:11] Leon Hardwick: And um, yeah. And that was it. And then, yeah, he was great. And then about then I went into the studio. We closed the investment moment when I got back. Thank God cuz we had no money. Um, And then I remember it was the 15th of December six, nearly six months later, and I, we were in the studio, it was our last day of filming, and we got an email from somebody in his team saying, we love your content.

[00:35:34] Leon Hardwick: Can we talk about distributing? And you becoming one of our licensees. And I burst, start crying. I won't, I won't admit, I, I'm gonna say it to you. I burst, start crying, the whole team burst, start crying. We've got absolutely wrecked on Pinot Grigio that night. And, um, yeah, I commend you. And, and honestly, it's it.

[00:35:53] Leon Hardwick: I can tell you're a bit emotional about it because it's, it's, it's obviously, it was a tough, a really tough time and to have the [00:36:00] tenacity and the drive and the be able to take that risk, um, there's not many people that would do that. Um, and, and essentially you saved the business, right? Because you, you had it did that opportunity, right?

[00:36:11] Leon Hardwick: And, and, and it was, that was our turning point. They became our biggest customer. And, um, revenue was, it was, it was amazing. They didn't acquire us in the end. Um, It was actually a competitor of theirs that acquired us in, in the end. But if it hadn't been for that beautiful, wonderful partnership with them, then we wouldn't have been able to survive the next four to five years of building it.

[00:36:33] Leon Hardwick: And, and, and Mordy knows that, you know, I've had coffees with him and lunch with hi breakfast with him, you know, when he's over in the UK, at the LinkedIn offices. And, and I will always be hugely, hugely grateful to him for. I love that story. Um, Amy and I think people listening, you know, there's a lot to take from that.

[00:36:50] Leon Hardwick: Um, I, people's risk radars are all very different. Um, but sometimes you've gotta make stuff happen. Um, it's not [00:37:00] comfortable at all, but, but yeah, it's a lovely, uh, it's a story. One of the reasons I wanted to get you on the podcast is I, I know that you've been through a lot to get to the point where you've exited and you've put a lot into it.

[00:37:12] Leon Hardwick: But I. I had a, a feeling there would be stories like that, which I think people should hear because it's, um, it's helpful in a, in so many ways. So you, you've, you've gotta the point that the company is acquired, um, yay. Uh, you've had, you're like the, the moment where you kind of go, okay, all that hard work came to something.

[00:37:35] Leon Hardwick: Um, the thing I wanted to talk to you about is, Along that journey, not only were you running the company and driving it forward and, and trying to figure out the, the, the road ahead, you did a lot of speaking, um, engagements as well. Um, and actually I've, I've watched a lot of them. So you're a TEDx speaker.

[00:37:57] Leon Hardwick: Um, you've done a lot of videos of, [00:38:00] of your own on career cake, but also outside of that, um, you talk a lot about judgment, imposter syndrome. These are all helpful subjects. Um, tell me a bit about the TEDx speaking, um, opportunity. Cuz I, I, I would highly recommend people watch that. Um, it's on judgment. Um, I found it fascinating and I also found.

[00:38:22] Leon Hardwick: your advice, like really invaluable. Um, so tell us how that came about and why you chose that subject. Oh, thank you for saying that, that, that, that means a huge amount. That is probably one of the things I'm most proud of, actually. Uh, and, you know, I'm, I've done some big things, but I still think that is probably one of the things I'm most proud of.

[00:38:39] Leon Hardwick: It's huge. And it's so good, by the way. Thank you. Thank you. It it, it's because of the way it's delivered. Right. And I th there's so much passion with it. Um, Yeah, I, I'm really curious as to how that came about. Um, well, I always wanted to do a telex talk. It was, it was, uh, uh, my vision board. [00:39:00] My vision boards are great now, but they started off as just a couple of notes I used to facilitate to my fridge door, knowing that I would have multiple cups of tea a day.

[00:39:07] Leon Hardwick: So I'd see it regularly and I just used to write things down and I think I'd watched The Secret back in the day. You know, like thoughts become things, write them down and, you know, all that . Um, and um, and I just wrote it down. And then a, a chap called Alex Mary, who was the creator of TEDx came, his first TEDx in Clapham, came to me and said, I wanna do a TEDx.

[00:39:29] Leon Hardwick: But, um, and he actually, I believe, and he might be, he could, might listen to this and correct me, but I, I'm almost like a hundred percent certain that he used me as part of his application. So he ha he built the, the event with me in mind. So when, yeah, so when he emailed me and said, can I have a chat? And he said, I'm doing this, will you be, will you speak?

[00:39:50] Leon Hardwick: When I was like, of course and two, it was like, it wasn't just like, would you speak? It's like I kind of felt so honored. that he'd asked me [00:40:00] that I was like, a hundred percent. And, and, and, and he said, I want you to do it on this kind of topic. And, and I thought, I can't talk about judgment without being really, really authentic and being really real.

[00:40:11] Leon Hardwick: Um, and, um, and that's, and, and, and it was obviously something that I've managed to c to, to, I've done a lot of development stuff, um, so that I'm able. Cope with that because the biggest prison people live in is the fear of what other people will think. Mm-hmm. , it's a hundred percent. The thing that, you know, I, I've been a development coach now for 20 years as well as a founder and entrepreneur in a space that is, by the way, factually, the odds are against women.

[00:40:37] Leon Hardwick: So for every one pound, less than one pence goes to a female founder. So like I've been there, I know what it's like to be judged on almost every level, professionally and personally. and if I'm gonna do anything with my life, I'm gonna need to learn how to cope with that. So I did, and then all of a sudden I'm given this TEDx platform and an opportunity to help others with that because it, you might not have, everyone's got their own story.

[00:40:59] Leon Hardwick: Everyone has [00:41:00] got their own thing that maybe they don't wanna join the gym cuz they think that they're, they're not thin enough or they don't wanna go for that promotion or they don't speak up in that meeting. They don't start that business. They. All of, or, or, or quitting. They don't quit that uni course that's no longer serving them because we're always frightened of what other people would bloody think of us.

[00:41:17] Leon Hardwick: Um, and like I said, it's the thing that holds us back. So I, I genuinely believe that you can have the best website in the world. You can have the best logo, you can have the biggest bank account, but if you don't nail that, then nothing else could, can really, really happen if, unless you get that nailed. So I decided that that's what I was gonna talk on and I was gonna be very raw.

[00:41:34] Leon Hardwick: I had to speak to my mum before I did it cause I have a beautiful relationship with my mother now. And said, look, I'm gonna, for the first time I'm gonna mention that I lived in foster care because I never talked about it, I never mentioned it professionally. Um, a few friends knew about it, but it was not something that I talked about because I didn't want people to think and I wasn't, cause I was embarrassed, by the way, cuz I'm not embarrassed about it at all.

[00:41:54] Leon Hardwick: It was more that I didn't want people to think I was using it to get ahead. You know, like the whole X factor sob story [00:42:00] shit. Like I hate that. Um, but I was like, I have to talk about it. And mum was like, yeah, it's fine. It's fine, it's fine. I don't mind you talking about. Um, so I did, and it, I, yeah, it was the best thing I ever did.

[00:42:13] Leon Hardwick: Like professionally and personally, I feel like it's the proudest thing ever you should be. Um, it's fantastic. I think everybody, I, I'll actually put the link to it in the release of the pod when it goes out because I think everybody should watch it. Um, that and the imposter syndrome one, I think is the, the, the two that are just great and people will get a lot from.

[00:42:32] Leon Hardwick: Um, and I wanted to mention it because I think. You should be very proud of it, but also people. Take a lot from it. Um, and I think way you, the way you delivered it as well, there was a, there was a bit in there where, where you, uh, you had a piece of paper where you were sort of pulling out comments from like random, oh my God.

[00:42:51] Leon Hardwick: Yes. They, it's hilarious. Like I can't believe people, I'm not subject to that kind of stuff. Sometimes I get the odd thing I don't like Right. But some of the stuff people [00:43:00] say on, on the internet is just disgraceful. Um, I had to have the Metropolitan Police involved ones because I had a chap that was got so.

[00:43:08] Leon Hardwick: Obsessed with me that he started, um, putting my profile on dating websites. He actually, um, Lucy Haskins, who works for me, worked with me. She was like my first founding team member and helped me build career cake. She worked for another company first. Um, and he. Put their company phone number into, I think it was about 300 automated websites saying that I wa I had 2 million pound and I wanted to buy a house.

[00:43:32] Leon Hardwick: Like state agents were phoning their company and shut down their phone lines. It was horrific. And the Met Police had to get involved. Like I had some, the, you know, when you put yourself out there, to the extent that I put myself out there, there's gonna be some negative stuff. Like, I was frightened to leave my house like it was, it got really bad at one point, but then you.

[00:43:52] Leon Hardwick: You also get those dickheads that on LinkedIn on. Um, but you do get dickheads on LinkedIn, but you got a lot more of them on, on YouTube. [00:44:00] So I wanna punch you in the face till you bleed. Um, shut your mouthy stupid woman and get back behind the reception desk. I had one guy say that he wanted to tie me to a tree.

[00:44:09] Leon Hardwick: In a flowery dress while I watched him cook meat on a barbecue. Like just, just bonkers. Just no, just type, type. Or sometimes you are a joke I used to have, but for every one of those comments you would have like 30, 40. Just one saying, thank you for helping me. And, and you've gotta remember that, you know, that's why you do it.

[00:44:30] Leon Hardwick: Yeah. And you actually say in that talk, the more people listening, uh, means the more judgment you're gonna get. It's just a numbers game. It's just a numbers game. That is literally all it is. You have to expect the criticism. You can't, you know, if you have to expect the criticism, it's part, it's part of the gig.

[00:44:46] Leon Hardwick: Like you can't have the good without the bad. But also just know that you've got to welcome it, accept it, because once you know it's coming, when it does arrive, you're not that bothered or surprised about it. Yeah, it's funny. My brother, [00:45:00] um, has, he's got a very successful business. Um, a lot of people will, will know him if, if they know me.

[00:45:07] Leon Hardwick: Um, and actually he started this business with nothing. Um, Literally, you know, credit card debt and just a belief in his ability to get it off the ground. And, um, his, I think he's, he employs like 26, 27 people now. 2 million pound turnover. Um, and he started this whole business doing, um, videos. He was doing these little funny videos that people would take the piss out of him for.

[00:45:34] Leon Hardwick: It essentially was the platform that made it into this business that's gone for 12 years now and, um, turning over 2 million credit or whatever it is a year. So, so, and. The thing with it, he is just one of those people that just doesn't care what people think. Mm. Does not care. Mm-hmm. . And yeah. I think one of the things that I want to caveat on that is that you don't wanna go through, through your business career thinking you don't care.

[00:45:57] Leon Hardwick: Um, it's just you've gotta be selective. Selective. Like it's [00:46:00] very, very easy to ignore the people that are telling you, um, that you blink too much. Mm-hmm. or that, you know, your advice is shit, you know, all that. Like that ignoring that is like the easiest thing in the world for me. Yeah. For me it's the, it's the, it's the people that, it's when you get stuff from people that it's just a little bit more thought out and that's when you get feedback where you think, Oh, actually they are my, are they my target customer?

[00:46:24] Leon Hardwick: Um, do I care about them? And, and you have a moment where we have to think, do I want to respect this or do I want to reject it? Because you can, you can respect criticism. It's absolutely fine. You know, there's some really, really helpful stuff there. Um, but you have to ask, are they your customer? Or, you know, are they one of your stakeholders?

[00:46:41] Leon Hardwick: Because if they're not, like for example, if I, if I was running a business, which I did career cake, and you've got. I dunno, 65 year old. Um, I did have a 65 year old woman in America message us saying that, um, something about the fact that our language wasn't, she didn't like the language we were [00:47:00] using. It was, uh, street, I think she said, uh, common.

[00:47:03] Leon Hardwick: Maybe she meant. Um, and I was like, well, I'm talking to 20. 25 year old. So if you don't like no shit, Sherlock, you don't like my content, I didn't make it for you, you know? But if I've got a 25 year old saying, that's not, I didn't like that, then, then you're like, oh hell. Okay. Right. Got it. Let me fix that.

[00:47:20] Leon Hardwick: I'm sorry. Yeah. And one of the things, when people run a business, if any, and, and not just people that run a business, if you are selling in your career, Stay open to the learnings. Absolutely. And the lessons, because we're always learning. We're always fucking up. We're always trying to get better. Fine.

[00:47:35] Leon Hardwick: Stay open to that, but be very careful who you listen to when they give you business advice because not everybody is qualified to critique you. Yeah, absolutely. You do a as well. You do a great video. Yeah. Pisses me off. Cause everybody, the second you say you're a business owner, you're a founder. The first thing that comes out of a lot of people's mouths is to give you business advice when you, when, when actually, and, and, and if they [00:48:00] haven't played in your space, whether they've won or failed, then no.

[00:48:04] Leon Hardwick: Just because they have more money than you. No. Just because they're older than you. No, it, it, there's, there's other criteria that, that, that matters there. So, you know, thank them, but don't go home and lose sleep over it. Yeah, absolutely Love it. And actually, that video. The other one I'll attach to this cuz that one is fantastic as well.

[00:48:21] Leon Hardwick: You do one specifically about who you listen to. Oh yeah, the woman, the woman that said she'd invest in our company if we changed the name because the name was, she said the name is too Korea cake. The name is too jovial. You'll never get corporates to take you seriously. And then Company's house, literally the government's body for corporate became a client and said they specifically lived on aim.

[00:48:43] Leon Hardwick: Yeah, love it. Absolutely love it. It's brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. Um, so. What is next for you? What are you up to now? Because I know you, you've obviously, um, you've, you've exited from Korea cake, you've done all of these great speaking engagements. Um, you've got [00:49:00] huge amount of experience and expertise to offer.

[00:49:04] Leon Hardwick: So what, what's happening next for you? Well, I think a lot of. I, we actually sold career cake like a year before it was announced, so people think I sold it six months ago. But really we finished the paperwork six months ago. We, we, we, we had the deal a year before, so there's been a lot of time to reflect and, and heal, like I'm recovering, I have to say, because it was, it was a journey that was the dark, like great, but the darkest.

[00:49:28] Leon Hardwick: darkest times to, to, to do that. And the things that you have to go through to build something like that, it's just so dark. And also there's a level of disappointment. You know, we didn't sell it for, you know, a huge amount of money. People got a return and, you know, I'm, I'm not disappointed. And, and, you know, and, and in fact, I had an email this morning from one of my investors.

[00:49:50] Leon Hardwick: Maybe quiet, actually one of my best in Australia, just saying how proud he is of me. And, and you know, and everything means a lot, doesn't it? But Yeah. But don't think sometimes when you're a first time family, you think you've gotta, unless you sell for 10 [00:50:00] million and make everybody millionaires, then you're, you're, you are a piece of crap.

[00:50:03] Leon Hardwick: And you, you know, and actually I think about career cake is. And I want other founders to hear this as well, that it's just part of your journey so that you, you can have successes and failures and still go on to have more successes and failures. So if success doesn't come from a success and you're not guaranteed another one, you might have a failure next time.

[00:50:23] Leon Hardwick: And, and if you have a failure, you might have a success next time. And, and also, I think that that's, that's why I always talk about the founder journey, and I help people on the founder journey because I do believe it is a journey. Um, and, and I'm still, I think, recovering from the last chapter of my journey.

[00:50:38] Leon Hardwick: Um, So I do need to get back to work because I'm, I'm not a millionaire , but reflecting on the lessons, what I would've done differently, what I would definitely do again, and the things I'm really proud of. I've spent a year doing that and, and I had a baby as well, so I had a baby four weeks after we. We solved the company.

[00:50:57] Leon Hardwick: So I was busy there. Thank you. I was busy [00:51:00] there, but I think that one of the things that I am, the only thing I can imagine doing now is helping other founders on their journey. Like I genuinely think that for the next 10 years of my life, that is what I want to do. Um, and specifically, even though I've got a, I can help other people, specifically female founders, just because of the funding landscape and that, you know, statistics are factually

[00:51:21] Leon Hardwick: You know, the odds are factually against you if you are a female founder. The numbers are shocking actually. Yeah, they are. And the experiences that I had. A lot of the big, big, big stories I've got to tell, which, you know, we, we won't cover today. I'll, I'll cover that in my own content. I'm sure the big, big stories to tell would only be relevant too.

[00:51:41] Leon Hardwick: And, and I hope male men, male founders, h hear them , but I think that they will land differently to female founders. So I think that's the place. And I just, Lord, I just literally just started a company this morning on company's house, . You shoulda have a party. You gonna have to, I 

know 

[00:51:56] Leon Hardwick: my husband celebrate that stuff.

[00:51:58] Leon Hardwick: I, I, I think somebody fa. [00:52:00] Jason Cal Canor, one of those guys sort of said, we should do more celebrating when people kick off a new venture. And like, yeah, my husband emailed and said, should we have pizza and red wine tonight? And I was like, yes. Perfect. Um, the, the company that I sold to, uh, sold Korea cake too, um, are wonderful and I, maybe I'll do some stuff with them.

[00:52:19] Leon Hardwick: I'm just kind of coming off maternity leave now and coming back out to the real world. But, um, I couldn't have wished for a better group of people to sell our company too. They really are. I mean, we would probably would've sold it. If they weren't great people as well, because obviously when you have, like, your hand is forced sometimes and you kind of have to, but the fact that it went to not only an incredible company, but an incredible company that is run by incredible good people to, I mean like good, good, good people that I would like to surround myself with in the future.

[00:52:47] Leon Hardwick: So maybe I'll do some more stuff with them. Um, but yeah, helping female founders I think is where I wanna be. So how do people find you? Um, and of course we'll put all the links and stuff, but how do people find you and sort of get to know you a bit better? [00:53:00] Um, so, um, I'm so Amy Bateman and it's Amy A i m w e, which is, um, which makes me laugh cause my mom was just trying to be French and posh.

[00:53:09] Leon Hardwick: She didn't spell a n y. So A I M W E, uh, Bateman. So do. I'm also, I, I've, I don't have a Twitter account, but I don't go there anymore. I kind of fell out a love with Twitter, but I'm on YouTube, so Amy, uh, Bateman, YouTube or, um, LinkedIn is kind of where I hang out the most. Yeah. Okay, cool. Well, I'll stick all of those down and the video, uh, links as well.

[00:53:31] Leon Hardwick: Um, Amy, it's been a real pleasure to talk to you. I, I'm so pleased that we've managed to get this, um, Nailed down. I've been wanting to do it for ages and just, you know, listening to some of the experiences you've had, um, you know, what you've been through and what's come out of it in the end. Um, just proves the reasons why I wanted to get you on here.

[00:53:52] Leon Hardwick: Um, Thank you so much for joining and um, yeah, we'll, we'll keep talking beyond this anyway, cuz it's been a real pleasure getting to know [00:54:00] you. Um, Amy Bateman everybody. Thank you so much.