The Handshakr Huddle - Season 3: Episode 4 with Brad Rosen President at Sales Assembly prev G2 CRO

Brad Rosen is a superstar of the revops world, someone with an incredibly rare "hockey stick startup to scale up" insight and experience. Brad had an unconventional journey into the world of startups, software and sales and one that I think you'll all enjoy hearing about. I certainly have enjoyed my chats with Brad, and I have a huge amount of respect for his journey and passion for his customer and the professions within the revenue operations umbrella.

Brad is a proven GTM (Sales, CS, Strategic Partnerships) and Operations leader with tons of experience in growing B2B GTM teams - including being employee #3 at G2 and now President of  Sales Assembly - Elevated Learning & Development Platform and Community for GTM Teams.

Transcript

**Speaker 1** (00:00:16) - Hey everybody. Welcome back to the Handshaker huddle. This week we have, uh, Brad Rosen. Brad is the President of learning and development platform and membership, uh, organization for go-to-market teams. Um, Brad has a distinguished career across, uh, uh, software, um, SaaS products, in particular g2, one of the first employees through the door there. So I'm really excited. I was a bit like, uh, buddy the Elf when Santa was announced, so I was like so excited when he agreed to do this. So Brad, welcome. Thanks for joining us.



**Speaker 2** (00:00:51) - Yeah, great to be here. That is, uh, quite an analogy. I'm glad that I can be compared to Buddy the Elf <laugh>.

**Speaker 1** (00:00:58) - Um, I think the day that we chatted and you said you would, you would join, I think I jumped up and down. It was like, awesome. So please, you could join us. Uh, I think our listeners could learn a huge amount, uh, from you. So thanks for joining. Um, we generally start with folks telling us a little bit about their background and like where they started and how they got into the whole sort of, uh, B2B world.

**Speaker 2** (00:01:20) - Yeah, happy to do that. Um, I, well, I can start early. You know, I went to college at, uh, university of Wisconsin Badgers, uh, and I was studying finance and I was like, I don't know, you know, what do I wanna do with my life? I'm not sure I'll study finance. Sounds good. Uh, so I went into finance right after school cuz like everybody else, you know, I'm still trying to figure out what, uh, what drove me and what I wanted to do. Finance sounded good at the time. Went into structured finance at, at Bank of America, large bank, kind of the proverbial cubicle <laugh>. Um, I was an analyst in, uh, structured finance world, and this was O 6 0 7, like leading up to, and structured finance was the center of the financial crisis, so it was kind of wild. Um, I was modeling CEOs, a b s MBS of these structured finance products that actually ended up partially helping to, uh, collapse the world economy.

**Speaker 2** (00:02:12) - So that was a pretty interesting time to be in there. Um, don't worry, we were just the trustee. We actually weren't, uh, putting together the deals. So I didn't feel as bad about it. But, uh, I think it was super interesting in learning about that was like my first cycle about learning about recession, risk mitigation, contagion, like all of that. Um, we're seeing some of that now, right? And I think if you weren't around then or weren't in finance, potentially even then, uh, you may not have some of the background and the understanding of like how this goes. And, um, you know, things can get dark really quickly, but then when you think their darkness is when they start to turn around. And so you just kind of have to have that balance in, in understanding what's going on and, and, hey, I've seen this before. So I was in finance for quite a while, uh, was going to business school, wanted to this thing called startup sounded cool, <laugh>, let's get into that. Uh, so I, uh, told my folks I was gonna kind of quit finance and just like go try a startup. And to my, uh, father who is very risk averse, it sounded like a terrible idea. <laugh>,

**Speaker 1** (00:03:13) - I couldn't imagine.

**Speaker 2** (00:03:14) - So yeah, so I was like, nah, I'm gonna go, like, I don't know if I like took an internship or what it was, and, uh, some small startup and I was like, you know what? I can always go back to finance, right? Like I, there's millions of finance jobs in Chicago, like I'll find one. Um, and uh, so then I ended up at, at g2, as you mentioned, as employee three, and I can kind of take you through that. But, uh, just happenstance into it based on a few parameters that I, I knew I was looking for. The first was like I wanted to make sure that I was working with folks who had had success in the past. Um, there's like a very high correlation due to like experience access to funding, um, a number of different reasons. And, and those, the, the folks who started G2 had already sold big machines to Oracle. So they had some of that, um, have subsequently done a few more. So, um, and I knew I wanted to learn from folks who had had success in the past. So I, I joined there and I guess as they say, the rest is history,

**Speaker 1** (00:04:11) - The rest is, the rest is history. And, and so that's fascinating. And I, I can just imagine, um, you know, I've seen all the movies, right? The big short and all the rest of it. And, uh, yeah, I, I can just see you in one of those cubicles, like, uh, trying to deal with all of that sort of crazy fallout. But, um, yeah, you, you made that shift because you wanted to get into that exciting world of startups. And how did you decide to do the more customer facing revenue-based roles? What was the sort of thinking around that shift? Because you went from finance to startup, but you've, you quickly went into a revenue-based role. How did that sort of, uh, come about?

**Speaker 2** (00:04:47) - Yeah, I would say a few reasons. Number one, I, I did recognize like I do have an analytical mind and you'll see that later in my career, kind of in the operational side. Um, and so I was thankful that I had that experience at the bank to really give the foundation of analytics and, and that way of thinking. But I did also realize I didn't wanna just sit with a spreadsheet all day. And there's nothing against it. Like, there are plenty of extremely smart folks who work in the back office, who do very well for themselves and they enjoy what they do. I just get energy and passion from talking to customers. Yeah. From getting out, being part of the commercial side of the business. Um, and so whether that's like actually on the frontline selling or more on the retention side and renewals or more partnerships, like, I've kind of done all those and I just find energy talking to folks.

**Speaker 2** (00:05:34) - And, um, I also knew that I didn't necessarily want to be at a big bank. Um, I wanted to be at a smaller organization where I could help make an impact that was also really important to me. So I would say those two things kind of came together. And then I would say the last part of that was just as we were growing g2, there were certain opportunities that I could take on. And so I took them, um, you know, the first was kind of selling. And so I worked with our co-founder, C R o, Matt Cornac, and him and I would go out there trying to pitch g2, like before it was g2. And people are like, what is this <laugh>? We're like, it's the review site, and you kinda like get these reviews and they're like, ah, I dunno. And so it was a long road, but definitely the, the passion of talking with, with people, being part of the commercials, understanding what works and what doesn't, and kind of combining the two. And that's where I think my rev ops career, um, really came to fruition was like the idea of using analytics to understand what we're doing well and where we can improve, and then going and implementing those, um, those thoughts and, uh, executing on on the ideas that we can, can make our business better.

**Speaker 1** (00:06:39) - Awesome. And, and I, I wanna get into rev ops probably separately later, but one of the things that resonated with me was kind of starting in finance and mine's my, my career's not sort of finance based, but I started, my, my first, I guess you could call it internship, was, um, with the UK equivalent, the i r and I had literally two weeks. Oh my God. It was, it

**Speaker 2** (00:06:59) - Was, you're a popular guy at

**Speaker 1** (00:07:00) - That <laugh>. It was, it was probably the worst two weeks of my life in, in sort of, you know, work. It was absolutely horrendous. And I think I started in accounting before I shifted into sales, but I, I totally get like that energy and like being with people and stuff, it, it, it kind of attracted me down that road as well. So I totally get it. Um, and, and there are certain personalities that love the sort of, you know, really analytical side of things, but, um, yeah, like you, I I, I totally love being in front of people and sort of, you know, figuring out those deals and being involved in the commercials. Um, so yeah. I, I, I get it. And you mentioned like, G2 and sort of getting that opportunity to kick, kick off in sales. G2 is a unicorn right now. It's a, it's a, it's a massive organization. Um, if it's not a unicorn, it's nearly a unicorn, I suppose. But, um, how did that come about? So you, you, you worked with some really great people there and you worked there for quite a long time and you sort of, your career went from sales all the way up to sort of rev ops and leading quite a significant function and leading the business through a period of massive growth. Yeah. Um, would you elaborate on like, the start, like the really early bit and then how things sort of progressed from there?

**Speaker 2** (00:08:13) - Yeah. I would say first and foremost, like if you wanna get into entrepreneurship and startup life, like, it's not all glamorous <laugh>. It's not all like, you know, the TV shows and like the, the movies and everything like it, it's a grind. Um, at first. And I would also say, especially in this time period, I think it's important to, to chat through like how I got the job. Um, as I mentioned, like I was just looking for different opportunities and I saw G2 as an opportunity. They had an opening, and so I applied and it wasn't perfect, like they were in the suburbs. So I took a train up there, which like wasn't ideal, but I wanted to see what the opportunity was. And, um, they were, so, I, I applied and I hadn't heard back. And like, I think now even more prevalent cuz like the job market right now is really tight, right?

**Speaker 2** (00:09:01) - Of saying there's a lot of folks who are looking for work. So I didn't just kind kind of like wait to hear back. I, I had an automated email that came from gk, the ceo, and I replied with a bunch of these answers that I had already submitted through the application and I said, here were my ideas. Like, I'd love to chat with you about them. Yes. And he immediately replied and introduced me to Matt, who was the hiring manager at the time. And, uh, and so it's like, make sure you're taking initiative would be the first thing I would say, which is like a really important skillset for anybody in any role. But like, if you're looking for a role specifically right now, I would, I would do that. Um, really make sure you're getting out there. But, so anyway, I came in, they were pitching me this whole idea and I'm shaking my head.

**Speaker 2** (00:09:41) - I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, sounds great. But like, I didn't have a software background. So the idea of like disrupting Gartner or these reviews and all these different pieces of software, I wasn't that familiar with them. I was familiar with a handful that I had used at the bank. And, um, you know, so I believed in them probably more than the vision. Like, I, I thought the vision was cool, I thought it was interesting. And I just believed that they had this experience, that they had a, a conviction around this. And so we started and, and we always said like, Hey, you know, the old, you know, feel the dreams line, like if you build it, they will come. Like, we just thought that, right? Oh, well if you're gonna write a, a review on Yelp, like look how many of those there are, then they should do software.

**Speaker 2** (00:10:20) - Turns out, uh, surprisingly enough that people like writing reviews about hamburgers a lot more than about pieces of software <laugh>. Yeah, I know it, it's shocking. It's really shocking. But that's the truth. And, um, so it took us a lot of time to, you know, two-sided marketplace is really challenging cuz you need to build both sides. You need the customer side, but you also need the reviews and the community side. And so the reviews and the community side, you have to build them kind of though concurrently customers won't come without the reviews, but the reviewers are kind of hesitant unless it's a, a well-known name and there's a reason for them to, to leave a review. Um, and so as we were building up the sales team, we also need to build up the reviews and, you know, we'd go out there and, and give gift cards and Dreamforce and really just do whatever we could to get reviews of software so that we could then get on the radar of these big software companies, Salesforce and whatnot.

**Speaker 2** (00:11:12) - Um, and it, it was tough. Like we had, it wasn't glamorous. Like we had an office that lost heat a few times. Like it, you know, it was leaking at certain points. It wasn't like some shanty, but like, you know, it wasn't, uh, Salesforce Tower, right? Like <laugh>, yeah. There, there's a big, big, uh, chasm there. So, but we, you know, and as we grew, obviously we would move to a different offices and we would grow the company. So, um, I started to build out the sales team, uh, hired, uh, turned out to be a buddy's, um, brother, one of my friend's brothers, he came on, he's still there and he's now be, he went from rep to senior rep to to enterprise rep, had our biggest deals and worked with our biggest customers and now runs an enterprise team. And, um, it's like, that stuff's extremely, um, that's the stuff that gets me going and that, that I love is seeing the growth of the folks within the organization.

**Speaker 2** (00:12:06) - The second rep I hired, um, worked his way up and then now he's a C R O for another company. And so just being able to like, grow and see what other folks do, um, stemming from their time at g2, that's, that's the cool stuff. And so, um, it took us a while, um, had built and loved the sales team for about, uh, two to three years. We got to go to market going, um, got in touch with obviously Salesforce and some other folks that really were like our rocks and our anchors to be able to say, well, Salesforce is doing it, so you should do it. Um, and then, uh, had an opportunity to go build out, like now that the sales is running, go build out the CS and like the other side of the house, right? Like how are, well, how's our retention look?

**Speaker 2** (00:12:48) - How do we continue to expand our current customer base? Um, I really love that portion of it. I think it's a really interesting skill set that is very different, very similar, but yet very different than sales. And I think a lot of folks currently and in the future are gonna really focus on retention. Cuz the leaky bucket principle is just very true and very hard to, to fix, um, if you do have poor retention. Uh, and then my last journey there, uh, I was kind of running partnerships and, and Godard who was the ceo, came back and said, Hey, I want you to run rev ops. I'm like, I don't know what that is, <laugh>, this is, you know, six, seven years ago. So this was pioneer kind of really becoming a thing and in, in really the forefront of like, what does that mean?

**Speaker 2** (00:13:31) - Second time you asked, you know, I'm really liking this partnership stuff. I'm not really sure what this is still. But the third time he asked, I got the hint. So I went to around rev ops, but, uh, it was a great combination of my go-to-market experience and my analytical background and being able to see the business as a whole and understand where our efficiencies were. Let's lean into those and where our gaps are. Let's make sure that we're addressing those. So I, uh, yeah, about seven years held a lot, basically all the go to market functions and, uh, was able to help build that out. Super fortunate for the opportunity and, and the growth, um, with startups, you just don't know if they're gonna succeed and if so, how long it's gonna take and what opportunity, you know, you're gonna have within the,

**Speaker 1** (00:14:09) - And and you said you were employee three, right? So, so that's right from, from, you know, that really early, uh, sort of stage to the end. How, how, how different did the number of employees look at that point? Because it, I think the growth was crazy, right?

**Speaker 2** (00:14:25) - Yeah. We were um, I think around 400 globally, 400. And then that was the other thing. It was like global, right? Like we had little office in Yeah, yeah. Not even Chicago. We were in the suburbs of Chicago until I finally convinced them to open an office downtown where, you know, it was easier to hire. But, um, yeah, then we were about 400 globally. When I say globally, we had, you know, um, Singapore, we had India, we had, these are offices, uh, London. So there were, you know, throughout the, the world we were able to expand. We had a partnership in, in Japan with, uh, a SoftBank subsidiary. So we really were able to, to blow it out. But part of that is where does growth come from? And uh, you have to keep thinking and pushing yourself to say, we're growing really well in the United States, but what would that look like in Asia or Europe, you know? Um, and how are we gonna keep pushing the envelope and making sure that we're we're relevant, uh, you know, and, and able to grow. And that's part of the VC model too, right? Like the, you know, it's 50% growth. Good. I don't know, maybe the VC wants 80 or a hundred. Um, and and that's part of the challenge. Yeah.

**Speaker 1** (00:15:32) - So that's an amazing hockey stick, right? It, it's a cr it's crazy growth. Not everybody's gonna get that. Um, but what's really apparent is there is a very early stage where you are absolutely grinding it out. I mean, it's like hard, hard grind. Um, you're trying to figure stuff out on the fly. It's like, I think somebody says like, um, you know, building a plane as you're, as you're, as you're falling to, to try and save yourself. It feels like that when you're in that early stage. What would you say, and you've, you've kind of alluded to the networks network effect thing. Uh, that's a really big challenge and I think people are really underestimated. I underestimated that at Handshake,

**Speaker 2** (00:16:15) - <laugh>,

**Speaker 1** (00:16:15) - You've had a conversation about this, but

**Speaker 2** (00:16:17) - Yeah,

**Speaker 1** (00:16:17) - That is probably one of the biggest challenges. But what, what would you say were the top three challenges really in that early stage when you're kind of, you're trying to figure it out and trying to build as you're going, uh, for a soft landing, right? But, so network effects I think probably massive. Cause you've got two customers, but one of the other things that you found really super challenging at the beginning

**Speaker 2** (00:16:38) - Yeah. Um, yeah, for that business network effects is really challenging. Is figuring out how do you make sure you have both sides of the network and that everybody is, um, you're building it at the same time as I said. Um, the second challenge is like, where do you deploy resources? Because as you get better at one thing, you need to build up another and you're constantly reactionary, which can cause issues. So we sold a bunch of customers, uh, oh, our CS organization isn't where it needs to be to make sure that we're retaining those customers or we're thinking about our platform in a different way. We're going to market cuz we wanna move up market and we wanna charge more money. And so we're gonna change our product in some demonstrable way. Not necessarily like completely, but we're gonna sell some different things. So what does that mean?

**Speaker 2** (00:17:29) - That means that we have to have a, a different sales process. We're probably gonna lose some like, legacy customers and we have to think about like all the ramifications, but we need to do it cuz we know that that's where our growth should go. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and I would say one of the biggest ones is figuring out personnel. It's really hard to hire for growing startups because one, typically there aren't enough people that fit the profile that you want. So in all aspects, so like, it could be rev ops, could be sales, could be cs. Like you need to find the right people, um, and enough of them to grow with you. So when, like you said, we were growing pretty fast, raising money and as you know, once you raise money you gotta deploy it like you're supposed to do quickly <laugh>. And so, oh, okay, go hire, you know, 20 reps this year, 30 40 reps this year.

**Speaker 2** (00:18:15) - That's not easy. It sounds easy, but it's not easy cuz you gotta find the right ones. And also, like, how many do you have to interview to hire 20 or 30 reps? Yeah. And how do you make, you know, and oh, two more two reps. So now I'm at 22 or 32 reps I need to hire, um, in ramp. And not to mention all the, the backend stuff. So finding the number of people, but also just finding the right people for that, for that role at that time. Uh, folks that are good for a five person company is different than, you know, people that have the skill set for a a 30 person company, which is different than people that have a skillset for a 400 person company. Yep. And a lot of times we try and hire too soon, we try and hire a VP of sales and we only have like two or three reps probably don't need that and probably not gonna work out. We try and hire the reps from Salesforce and LinkedIn and Microsoft, uh, when, you know, we're still figuring out product market fit. They don't necessarily have the will or the skillset that you need at that time. That's not to say they don't have a wonderful skillset, but like there's a very different in infrastructure when you work at Salesforce than when you work at a growing startup. You just have to understand where you are and what the skillset is that you need at that time.

**Speaker 1** (00:19:29) - What do you think is the major skill set or trait that makes, you know, a good fit in a, in a revenue function at that point? That early point? Um, I I, I think it's like a grittiness, um, and a and a, I guess an all rounder, but what are your thoughts on that? Um,

**Speaker 2** (00:19:55) - No question. There's a gritty, um, autonomous kind of feel to it where they're just gonna figure it out. They're gonna do what they have to do to get it done. And if that means writing their own email, if that means, uh, creating their own decks or finding ways to push the envelope to make things, they're not always gonna be perfect, but they're finding ways to get things done. Mm-hmm. And without a ton of resources, because that's the reality. Again, your resources are finite, especially in a growing startup. You may not have a ton of funding. You may be working on getting new funding, you may be deploying focused on product right now. And so the sales org doesn't have as much re you know, and many resources as they need. Um, so somebody who can kind of do it on their own, um, and then someone that learns and adapts really quickly.

**Speaker 2** (00:20:41) - Yep, yep. They get on a call, they try two or three different pitches and, and my best reps at at G2 always had this, they could get on a call. They maybe sometimes once, but at least two or three times they pitch something one way they realize it's not working, they automatically shift and try something else. They're ab testing every time they're getting on the phone and sending an email and they're iterating making their process better. Because the reality is nobody has figured it out. If you don't have product market fit, and even if your manager or c e o or somebody has figured, figured it out, it's still challenging to train those folks because there's not an enablement. Maybe you don't have a true sales leader in place. So the sales team of themselves have to kind of be able to figure it out and, and, and learn as they go.

**Speaker 1** (00:21:27) - Yeah, that's awesome advice, I think. Um, and, and switching gears, and you kind of mentioned product market fit. When did you know, when did you feel that it was happening? Like what was the thing that happened that you sort of thought, okay, this is going somewhere

**Speaker 2** (00:21:41) - <laugh>, do you remember? Uh, there were a few cool moments that were not that yet, but the first cool moment I'll, I'll never forget was, um, you could like look on, and this is the stuff that you think about when you're in a small environment. Like I was watching the Google Analytics dashboard to see how many people were on our site. And so it was like, why was I doing that as like the out of sales? Well, we all did everything. Like, I don't know.

**Speaker 1** (00:22:03) - That was hard. Yeah, exactly.

**Speaker 2** (00:22:05) - And uh, if there were more than 10 people on the site, like something was going on, like it was like nine and then they would go eight and 11, it was just kind of bouncing around. And then one day I just see it shoot up to like 90 and then like 200 and it got to like four 50. And I'm like, oh my gosh, it's happening. Like we did it, we made it <laugh>, uh, and it was like the Salesforce marketing Cloud had sent out an email saying, can you come review us something to that extent. So it obviously had a, a pretty big reach, but that was cool. That was a, you know, a moment. And then there were certain points where we signed up, you know, Salesforce and then we hit our first year. And there's like certain points along the way where we're like, I think we're on to something.

**Speaker 2** (00:22:42) - Um, but there were, the biggest moment was when folks started to call us and say, Hey, I want to get involved. And I'm like, great. Why <laugh>? You know, like, where is this coming from? And they would say one of two things. Either our, the buyers in our process are asking us about our G2 reviews, or they're asking us about our competitors' G2 reviews. They're bringing them up in the sales cycle. And so what that meant was our platform had so much influence on the buying process that they had no other choice but to get involved, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, and so that's when I was like, all right, this is something like, this is now, um, a, it is turned from a, a nice to have to, a need to have. Now it would depend on how many reviews and the type of market you were in, but there were clearly certain markets where you had to be involved because we were influencing the buying process. And that was always the dream, but it just takes a while to get there.

**Speaker 1** (00:23:41) - Yeah. Yeah. I, you know, I, I hugely admire the company. Um, and I have done from afar, now I'm a user, right? So I always look at reviews when I, when I'm looking at the software and things. Um, but it, it, one of the reasons I was so excited and I kind of mentioned, I was like, buddy the elf was because it's rare to kind of get conversation with people that were at the call face, like right at the beginning all the way through to that point where, you know, the company, um, uh, becomes super successful. Um, so yeah, it's a PR privilege to hear the story and I could spend hours on it. I've already pro you about this in other conversations, right, <laugh>, but I think, um, you, you kind of get to the point where you shift to rev ops and you're sort of figuring all of that stuff out, right? At the be sort of, I suppose, pioneering that right at the beginning of when it started to become a, a, a term. Um, but you moved on from G2 to other opportunities. So what happened after G2 and where did you go? And um, I guess as a couple of stops before you, you hit sales assembly, right?

**Speaker 2** (00:24:44) - Yeah. Um, so towards the end of g2, I knew I wanted to go build again. Yeah. And I mentioned that before, like at the bank I knew I wanted to build, um, when G2 is at 400 people and kind of just a different, different beast, right? Like, I was like, I want, I want to go build again. Like I know that that's what I like to do. Um, and I've had an amazing run and seven years, especially in, in this, uh, you know, timeframe is like a is is an eternity in the company. <laugh>.

**Speaker 1** (00:25:14) - Yeah. I'm surprised you haven't got more gray hair, Brett, I have to say.

**Speaker 2** (00:25:17) - That's right. Well, you can't see it. It's just <laugh>. Uh, and um, so I knew I wanted to go build again, uh, I the covid and then, um, some other things, but I did end up, one of the things I was really excited about, I did end up helping one of my high school buddies start to this kind of G2 for personal subscriptions. And he had just purchased the company and was like really excited about growing it and uh, started to grow it with him. And, uh, there was a clear delineation between B2B and b2c. And, uh, not that that was like foreign to me. I was well aware of what I was getting into. But, um, I think there are some certain points where you get into something and you just recognize that there's, uh, more out there or like that's not scratching the itch, if you will.

**Speaker 2** (00:26:05) - And, um, I recognize my, my background, my network, my, my passion was in b2b, not b2c. Yeah. Um, b2c, much more conversion based, much more about driving SEO and thinking through like, you know, users and stuff like that, which, um, actually these two did have some of that. So that's why there were definitely similarities between the two. But I knew that, um, B2B is kind of where I wanted to be. And so I, I took that opportunity to, uh, to look again and then, uh, I was really deciding between like a very large, well-known SaaS company and, uh, sales assembly. And, um, so then it kind of came down to, and I, another piece of, I guess advice if you will, but if you're looking for a role, uh, don't wait until you're in the interview process, um, to decide if you like the role.

**Speaker 2** (00:26:52) - Like start with a list of your priorities and what you want out of something. And that way you're, you're coming with a clear mind when you're, when you're interviewing with certain roles, you get excited. You're like, oh yeah, they're pitching me the, the vision, right? The, this is gonna be great. Um, but you don't take a step back. Sometimes you try and write off some of the red flags of the negative, you're like, oh, that'll be fine. But if those are your top 1, 2, 3 things, then um, then you shouldn't, shouldn't move forward. You should find another opportunity. And so some of the things that I, I recognize, um, um, that were part of my G2 journey, um, and then I wanted to make sure we're like, um, absolutes was first and foremost, like, who are the people you're working with? Um, I really took that for granted at g2.

**Speaker 2** (00:27:35) - I have a lot of lifelong friends that came out of G2 that I'm still in touch with, many of which, um, you know, I still talk to the leadership team over there. I still talk to many of my reps that I worked with and, and some of the leaders, um, some of my very good friends at my wedding were, were fr g2. So, um, no that's cuz it was across seven years and I think a very different time when now that a lot of things are virtual, you don't spend as much time with these folks. But when you're in the office constantly and going on a lot of trips and there's happy hours and different things going on, you just get to know these folks really well. Um, so the people like you enjoy them cuz you're gonna spend more time with them probably than your family or close to it.

**Speaker 2** (00:28:14) - If you're building a startup, um, you trust them and you believe in them like professionally. So the people were really important and uh, I kind of knew the folks over here for a long time. Uh, we had used sales assembly at G2 and I understood the value proposition. So that was kinda the second thing was, um, the light bulb went on when the, the BDR team rolled up through me at G2 and uh, the BDR leader every month would come to me and say, here's the spiff I wanna run this month for the BDRs to whoever has the most calls set up. They get Kohls tickets, they get a concert tickets, they get an Amazon gift card, like whatever it was cool stuff. So one one month comes up to me and says, Hey, they want, uh, you know, those two tickets to the sales assembly event we get each month?

**Speaker 2** (00:28:55) - Like that's what they want is their spit. I was like, like the learning and development platform, they want that instead of fulls tickets. And he's like, yes. And I'm like, huh, interesting. Like, that's great. I mean I'm glad they're investing in themselves, but super interesting cuz you wouldn't naturally think that would be the case. Um, and so then, you know, I had been to a few sales, some events, but I was like, let me look into this further. Like what is this exactly? Um, so I got to know them a little better. And uh, our paths I would say were very interesting in that like during covid, like I said, I had, you know, that stop and kind of came to some realization. And during Covid they also, so somebody went through a transformation and, and that was cuz they were in-person networking events in Chicago.

**Speaker 2** (00:29:37) - And uh, obviously Covid hits options are like close up shop or or go virtual. So went virtual was super lucky to come in and just build the infrastructure basically from the ground up. So we didn't have a crm, we didn't have contracts that we were assigning. Um, you know, the, the programming was definitely really valuable but had no real rhyme or reason. We were just kind of throwing really cool programs that people were interested in. So getting that go to market off the ground, hiring a team, um, is what I've been doing for the last two years here. And um, I think we have a really exciting opportunity in front of us. And, and that's kind of the last part is like looking for that opportunity for that, hey, we can do something really different here that can help a lot of people and really change things and, and I think we have another opportunity to do that with this one.

**Speaker 1** (00:30:22) - Yeah, I I, it's an amazing story and um, you know, I think there's a lot to take from that, especially if people are looking to transition into roles. Um, you mentioned something earlier on in our discussion about, um, being proactive in that process of trying to get visibility when you're looking for a a, a role. So that's like the first thing I took, um, at the beginning as a takeaway. The second thing is, you know, the people that you're working with, you are gonna be spending an awful lot of time with these folks and I, and I always have the test in my head as if my plane was canceled and we had a overnight stay and we had a sit in an airport together, would we get <laugh>? Would we get along

**Speaker 2** (00:30:59) - Stand them? Yeah.

**Speaker 1** (00:31:00) - It's like, can we have a, can we have a coffee or a beer together and like, you know, just yeah. You know, chew the fat or whatever. Um, so that's, that's awesome. So these people you respect, you, you know, you enjoy being with and the product and the value that they deliver was super clear and I think there's an opportunity as well just because of the world of sort of b to be go to market, rev ops, sales, all of that has changed so much, um, especially in the last 18 months or so. Um, I think the platform and the membership in that community you guys have created is super useful. I'd love to get into that a little bit more. I dunno, if you want to, could you summarize a little bit about what it is Yeah. And what you guys offer so that the folks out there can, um, get visibility of it. Cuz I think a lot of our listeners are, are sort of u uk, European based Canadians, uh, based as well. So, um, yeah, it, it could hopefully help a lot of people,

**Speaker 2** (00:31:54) - Right? And that, and that's the beauty of going virtual is like we can include everybody's included, right? And everybody's part of this. So, um, elevated learning and development for go to market teams. And so what that means is we truly believe that when you're going to market in a B2B SaaS company, there's a lot of things that you have nuanced, it's about your product, but then there's a lot of things that are very similar and that we can bring that training and development to organizations. And we think that organizations really need to be learning focused and, and, and learning, um, you know, have learning outcomes that they want to drive with their people because without a culture of learning, your people are not getting better. Yeah. And they're probably not gonna stick around. Yeah. Because they don't see you investing in them. And so like both of those things should <laugh> be alarm bells if you're not doing it.

**Speaker 2** (00:32:41) - Um, and if you don't have an enablement team, you're able to use this as a supplemental way to drive training and enablement. So 250 plus live events a year in different formats a lot of times around the community. So having breakouts, meeting with other folks from other organizations and being exposed to thought leaders and subject matter experts throughout the community. So you might have the VP of sales talking about, you know, negotiation on one call and then from a completely different company you have the head of CS talking about retention. So hearing those different voices, having kind of takeaways and things that you can do to, to co go back and really just that day have action items and things that you can do to improve your role, we think is super important. And then we just bundle it all up and say your whole company, your whole go to market team under one subscription so you don't have to worry about nickling and diming each license and all

**Speaker 1** (00:33:32) - That. I love that by the way. I saw that a couple of weeks ago. Um, fantastic. You know, really clear and no messing about, it's an awesome pro proposition I think.

**Speaker 2** (00:33:42) - Yeah. And so it's, it's really about learning and development. So we have live, we have on demand, so however you learn best, you're able to take that information in, um, and then go implement it within your business. And so we do believe that a lot of folks have, have either been through what you've been through or are going through what you're going through. And so that community aspect of sharing it, you know, together and going through the experiences and being able to bounce ideas off of other people is really important. You know, when I was growing g2, like there were a lot of times where I said, you know, somebody else must have solved this right? <laugh> or we redid all the comp plans and so like, what's my best practice here? How should I be thinking about this? Where are the places that I can go to actually get information about uh, building comp plans or if I'm an ae where is the information I can go about writing the best email sequences or how I should handle certain negotiations?

**Speaker 2** (00:34:32) - So there's those foundational level skills that we can just provide to organizations. Um, and content takes a lot of time to develop on a lot of money to be able to, to resource. So for every organization, whether you have enablement or not, um, finding a resource like ours to be able to supplement that content and that training and development is really integral, especially in this day age, like you mentioned a lot of folks are, are pulling back on hiring, maybe they're unfortunately laying some folks off. And so you just need efficiency out of your team and how do you do that? You gotta make the current team better. Yes. And you do that through training.

**Speaker 1** (00:35:05) - Makes total sense. It's such a cool proposition. Um, very clear. Um, sales assembly.com folks. So, uh, I'll put those links in all the like, you know, notes and uh, pod uh, information. Yeah. Um, my, one of the things I've been super impressed with is you'll kind of, um, public persona and the, the, the sort of management team and what they talk about and how they talk about stuff is super pithy and it's, um, there's some kind of humorous stuff you guys do on social as well. So, uh, guys give it a, give it a look, um, when you've got some, some time. Um, one of the sort of, I guess final questions I had for you was, um, where can folks find you and engage you if you're sort of open to that? Um, and we'll, we'll, we'll cover all this stuff in the notes, but where do you, where can people find you most? Uh, clearly,

**Speaker 2** (00:35:54) - Like you said, we do, we do a lot on LinkedIn, so feel free to connect or shoot me a note. Um, obviously on sales.com you can shoot us a note, but, uh, LinkedIn, we do believe that there is, um, a really good opportunity to be out there. Like you said, we don't tag ourselves too seriously, so like we provide value, but we also joke around a little bit to make sure that folks see the personal side. Cause I, I do think that there's like a fine, you know, being able to show whether you're in sales or any role, frankly, like show who you are a little more and, and people will resonate. That'll resonate with people and you can build relationships there. So we're pretty active on that. We think it helps to drive our name and our business and, and what we do and who we are. So if, uh, would love to connect with anybody that's, uh, that's looking to do

**Speaker 1** (00:36:37) - That. Awesome. Thank you. Um, and, and thanks for joining us on, on the part. I'm, I'm absolutely like positive. The listeners will love this episode cuz most of our, our listeners are in sort of the B2B enterprise space, whether it's on the buy side or sell side. So it'll be super interesting and G two's one of those companies that everybody kind of wants to hear a bit more about and um, this huge value in sales assembly as well. So thank you so much for joining. Um, Brad Rosen.

**Speaker 2** (00:37:04) - Yeah, thank you so much for having me. It's uh, great to chat with you.